Curse

Lagg · Jul 29, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

With reference to this thread: (a true gem of a flamewar)

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=37159

You saw this one coming, didn't you?

So seriously, switching armors in-game (both in pvp and pve) to reap different benefits according to the situation sounds like a serious balancing flaw to me, especially with regard to pvp-only players, who only have one armor at any given time.

Edit: Shayne Hawke: Armor swapping has been disabled in PvP for a long time now. Further discussion should only be on the implementation of this in PvE.

EmperorTippy · Jul 29, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

It's what they get for being PvP chars. If we give them the armor I will feel bad for having run 6 chars through the whole game unlocking all skills on both accounts and most upgrades. I did that because of very minimal and conditional bonuses (such as switching armor).

PieXags · Jul 29, 2005, 07:41 AM // 07:41

While I enjoy switching armors with my necro, I will say that I don't think it's fair. I just feel the need to because no other classes armor has a penalty as big as the necro armor, which depending on the set dramtically decreases protection against holy damage, which really pisses me off. No other class gets screwed by a certain type of damage because of their armor, so I switch between two sets of necro armor...but even though it's possible and beneficial to do it...

Yeah, I agree, you shouldn't be able to switch armor during PvP battles like you currently can, it's really not fair (especially to PvP only characters...and those who can't afford more than one set), in a real battle you don't come carrying an extra set of armor and change in the midst of battle, you come in your armor and fight in it, and that's how it should be.

ShinJin Kahn · Jul 29, 2005, 08:08 AM // 08:08

What about people that switch abtribute point in a match?, at the start of a match i have 12 in smiting, cast all my enchantments then drop the 12 down to 8 and put the remaining atb in strength and axe, should that be stopped too?.

If people wanna change their stuff mid game then let, it's not easy to change a full set of armour or abt points while underfire so I think it's unfair to take it away.

chaos dragoon · Jul 29, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

i believe it is unfair(being one of those that cant afford extra armor).that type of bonus should not be only for pve/rich people.

Lagg · Jul 29, 2005, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinJin Kahn

If people wanna change their stuff mid game then let, it's not easy to change a full set of armour or abt points while underfire so I think it's unfair to take it away.

True, but I don't think the devs meant it to be like that.

And I'm sure the really experienced pvp players will have learned how to master this technique in no time, whereas more casual players don't even realise that it's possible, let alone practise it. This serves just to further increase the gap between players. I believe there are more interesting ways to prove one's worth.

And about the attribute points specifically, we could just get rid of refund points altogether. Letting you change and rearrange as much as you like in town, and locking them as soon you enter the game.

ShinJin Kahn · Jul 29, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39

lolz, sorry to say this, but what excatly do you think top players do that make them top players?.

Do you see tennis casuals going to Wimbledon or the Austrailian open to compete with the top players then complain when they lose about imbalence?

Top player are better not only cos their skill lefvel is higher, but also cos their knowelage is alot higher then the casual players, they know ALOT about the game, which armours to wear in each situation, which weapons, which skill, how to counter each skill, recognize each skill from the start up.

I dislike people trying to flatten the playing field, trying to make everything the same, it's very bland, remember street fight 1 where you could only pick ryu?, that game sure had diversity.......

Lagg · Jul 29, 2005, 09:06 AM // 09:06

We're once again treading on the very thin ice of game design and development decisions. As a rule, what can be done to achieve an advantage, should be done. Just think of the bodyblock strategy to win HoH.

Personally (and I should underline this, in italics, caps and bold), hold on, PERSONALLY, as a very irregular HoH visitor, I would say: whatever makes you pvp'ers happy, but I think it's an exploit to some degree. Yes, you can call this "trying to flatten the playing field", but can you tell me with a straight face that this is the way the game is intended to be played? Okay, it won't ever be as balanced as chess, but come on.

I'd rather see top players being top players due to their builds and team tactics than some obscure way of mastering the system. To bring up chess again, it's like having a pawn taken en passant. But then again, I live in an imaginary world where fairplay exists.

Anyways, I know I'm staying away from pvp from now on. I won't be missed.

ShinJin Kahn · Jul 29, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

build on the whole can be copied, just click on someone health bar and you see every skill as they use it, also you can kinda tell what they'll be doing by their class combination.

If you remove the small things that make top players then the game become a noob fest where everyone is digustingly powerful and and kill in one or two hits. which isin't fun for anyone.

PieXags · Jul 29, 2005, 10:29 AM // 10:29

If the only "skill" top players have over normal players is to switch attributes and gear once a battles started I'm going to have to say they don't deserve to be considered top players anyway, if they're good enough they'll stay good without being able to switch gear in-game, it still takes skill and knowledge to master one's skill set and put it to use in the midst of battle.

John Bloodstone · Jul 29, 2005, 11:08 AM // 11:08

For PvE I dont think armour switching matters - having to go back to town to use my new collectors armour would be a bit of a drawback. However, for PvP I'm with the OP on this one, it shouldn't be allowed.

The whole point of taking a set of armour is that you have evaluated the situation and chosen the armour that best suits your build and the situation you expect to encounter. i.e - you're going to take armour with greater AL vs elemental damage if you're expecting to come up against Elementalists. The same goes for skills; you take the skills that suit your build and your build suits the expected situation.

So, if you can't change your skills in the middle of a game, why on earth should you be able to change your armour? You might find out that one particular skill you brought is useless because you're facing the wrong team, but you'll never be at a disadvantage with armour because you can swap it over in an instant. Not only that, but the people who can afford to bring a set of every type of armour into a battle are going to have an advantage over those that don't.

Pandora's box · Jul 29, 2005, 11:15 AM // 11:15

A don't see any reason to forbid armor switching. Everyone has the same possibillities here. Only players who are not fast enough to switch would dislike it, but that's their problem

PieXags · Jul 29, 2005, 11:39 AM // 11:39

PvP only characters don't have the option, that's why it's unfair.

John Bloodstone · Jul 29, 2005, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

PvP only characters don't have the option, that's why it's unfair.

Not to mention the whole skill over hours played mantra goes out the window as well - who can afford to have every set of armour with all the rune upgrades in them?

RTSFirebat · Jul 29, 2005, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bloodstone

Not to mention the whole skill over hours played mantra goes out the window as well - who can afford to have every set of armour with all the rune upgrades in them?

Power Farms, but that's another topic.

I think they should allow people to switch... BUT... add a massive 5-10 sec delay between switching.

Aniewiel · Jul 29, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

Power Farms, but that's another topic.

I think they should allow people to switch... BUT... add a massive 5-10 sec delay between switching.

Or maybe disable skills for 10-20 seconds on armor OR skill change?

RTSFirebat · Jul 29, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Or maybe disable skills for 10-20 seconds on armor OR skill change?

No talk of skill changing... that would be scary O_o

Aniewiel · Jul 29, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTSFirebat

No talk of skill changing... that would be scary O_o

No no...not changing skills. It would be similar to when a ranger's pet dies and all the ranger's skills are disabled for 10 seconds (I think). After that, they're all good again. Doing something like this for armor changes would make people have to think about it a bit. Slight punative measures aren't always bad.

Mavrik · Jul 29, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

I only play PvE and switch armor from time to time when outside a town. I see nothing wrong or "unbalanced" about it.

Algren Cole · Jul 29, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

let's make every character a warrior and only have 8 skills in the game...that way strategy, thought, and technique bear no weight in a game based around strategy, thought, and technique...